I Know I seem to Rant Alot... /rant

"Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen" (sportwagen) 09/19/2014 at 18:45 • Filed to: Rant

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...but here we go again with my parents. This time about selling my JSW and getting a Saabaru. Conversation goes like this:

"No, don't even talk about it."

Me-"What if something breaks and it becomes a money pit?" (Jetta)

"Then you won't be driving."

Me-"Why do you think the Jetta will be so much more reliable than a Saab / WRX?"

"Because it is a european luxury car." (Saab

Me-"No, it's a Subaru."

"You can save up to buy one yourself then."

Me-"But mom won't let me get a second car."

"That's your problem."

Me- "So what if the car breaks down and costs $2-3k to fix?" (Jetta)

"Then you will be fixing it yourself. You will do what I say because I said so. End of discussion."

Sometimes, my dad is a bit of an idiot... what's less reliable than a newish VW nearing 100k miles? NOTHING. A Saab 9-2X Aero with 65k miles? Better and lower insurance! I love my dad, but come on his reasoning here is ridiculous.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:46

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Thankfully, when we have kids, we wouldn't be thinking like dickheads. I mean, I love my father but I still want a goddamned Super Beetle.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 09/19/2014 at 18:48

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Exactly, have this for your time

jkm7680 > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:48

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I hate to break it to you, but newish VWs aren't that unreliable.

I support you getting the Saabaru. But from the angle of your parents, they probably think that the older the car the more unreliable it is.

Kanaric > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:50

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I would like a Saabaru with a STI conversion with the JDM V7 engine.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > jkm7680 09/19/2014 at 18:51

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Yep that and more dangerous... 89 Foxbody GT Convertible I understand, 79 MG Midget I understand, 05 Saab??? WTF it (probably) has better crash test ratings than my mom's 08 Chrysler 300 for God's sake! But the VW is going to need a new clutch in around 20k miles along with new tires, timing belt change, and new shocks (probably needs those now lol)

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Kanaric 09/19/2014 at 18:51

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AW STOP TEMPTING ME SATAN

Sweet Trav > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:53

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So, I get where you're coming from. but when you complain about stuff like this, You just sound ungrateful.

If I were your parents Id threaten to sell the Sportwagen and buy you a Nissan Versa with CVT and great warranty.

Kanaric > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:53

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The 8000rpms and all forged internals of Satan.

jariten1781 > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:54

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If it's in your name being paid for by you and parked at a place you pay for then they have no say. Otherwise just be happy you have a decent car and parents who helped you get it. A lot of us didn't.

That said, one of my co-workers kids convinced him to let them trade their car by putting together a power point presentation and financial spreadsheet showing the risk opportunity analysis. He was more convinced by their effort and seriousness than he had been by traditional entitled teenage whining.

Aaron James > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:55

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It's all part of growing up. Be fortunate you have a car, many many kids have parents who can't afford to supply and insure a "kids car". Be grateful for what you have. Go to school, work hard, buy what you want on your terms with your money.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:56

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Saabarus are VERY unreliable since most/all have been driven for almost 10 very hard years and they are overpriced due to the saab factor. I've never been a fan of them. At first I thought you wanted to trade in the wagon for a Toyobaru and I can see that. It would be decent on gas while still fun and have a warranty even as a pre-owned.......But a 10 year old subaru dressed up as a saab driven by dicks? You will break down in it often. That jetta is not likely o become a money pit unless you neglect it harshly.

jkm7680 > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:56

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130,000 is recommended for the timing belt replacement.

Clutch, depends on driving style. Tires can be cheap, shocks can be not that cheap.

claramag, Mustaco Master > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:56

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All I know is that when I have a kid that little fucker is getting my current mustang, which'll either not be running or home to a Coyote 5.0.

Or both!

jkm7680 > jkm7680 09/19/2014 at 18:57

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Also, this.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/516/2011_…

For Sweden > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 18:59

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There's only one solution. Put ads for both of your parents on Craigslist's sexy personals page. They find out. They divorce with split custody. One parent buys you the car in an effort to win your affection and the divorce.

The car is worth it, isn't it?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:00

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Imagine all the work the saabaru would need though. And keep in mind the driving habits of the typical owner for each. The saabaru will also be much harder to find parts for as both the car itself and the WRX it was based on have been out of production for a while. I'm agreeing with your parents on this one, the jetta is a better choice until you move out on your own and only have to answer to yourself when it breaks down (and yes, it WILL break down but you'll love it anyways)

scoob > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:05

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Hngggggggggggggg

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Sweet Trav 09/19/2014 at 19:06

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No, I'd do what my parents did to me - sell his car, take the money, and buy him a late 90s monte carlo.

Sweet Trav > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/19/2014 at 19:08

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A CVT is far worse punishment than a late 90's FWD W-body.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Sweet Trav 09/19/2014 at 19:09

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I beg to differ - the CVT has more value so when you inevitably get to sell it, you have more value to get something decent with. I had to drive a CVT versa as a rental for a week when the monte's subframe kinda detached from the rest of the car.

jlmounce > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:11

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Who's paying for the car? If your parents are footing the bill for your current or future car, unfortunately you're kind of at their mercy and rightfully so. In my youth I probably would have agreed with you on this one, but having been through exact situations like this with my parents, I see their logic. If you're not paying for the car, be happy you have one at all. Many kids are not so lucky.

I do want to point out that your logic behind the move is predicated on an "if" scenario. While it's true that VW's, especially older ones don't have the best reliability track record, that doesn't mean that yours won't or can't be reliable. You're trying to justify your want with a scenario that doesn't have any current basis in reality.

(I haven't read your previous posts, so I apologize if this is not the case. Your post mentioned if scenarios to reliability so I'm assuming the car is in otherwise good operating condition)

But, within your post, lies an answer. Your father by his statement is on board with the idea of you purchasing the car yourself with your money. You say your mom is against this idea. The answer is to do what your father says. Earn and save up the money necessary to purchase the 9-2x. When you're at that point, leverage your father to work on your mother's view of not having a second car.

I'd angle it like this. "Mom, I worked and saved up the money to get the car that I really want. I know you're against me having two cars. Now that I have the money to buy the car I want, why don't I sell the Jetta for you, then buy the Saab?" Obviously if you didn't buy the Jetta in the first place, that money goes back to your parents.

This does a couple of things. It shows your parents that you're able to work for the things you want without just asking for a hand out. By offering to do the sale duty and postponing purchase of the Saab until after the Jetta is gone, shows that you make logical decisions based on want and need. Additionally, by doing the sale for them and returning the proceeds, it shows that you have respect for their money and time.

If you come to the table with a real plan and show you've put in the work to make that plan a reality, the majority of reasonable parents aren't going to hold you back on that. If then at that situation, they still say no, then you'd have a good reason for a /rant.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/19/2014 at 19:15

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the 9-2 I was looking at was completely stock with 60k miles in WA for 10k... Not exactly a dick's car

TheOnelectronic > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:20

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I recently had to convince my dad that he'd be wise to sell the 120,000 mile Land Rover while it still had relatively few problems.

"It's been running fine up until now!"

"Yes, and when it does break down, it's going to be something catastrophic and you won't be able to get shit for it."

Keep in mind, the dealer thinks it's on the verge of internal failure. Like, snapping a connecting rod or something. That was six months ago.

Finally got carmax to take it a few weeks ago. As we were washing it up, noticed the glass roof had a crack along the edge. That wouldn't have been fun to fix.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:23

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You don't know that. Most of the ones I see both in the wild and for sale are owned by guys with a penchant for driving hard. They might look clean but it could very well have been hammered. Subaru engines need major services at 75k BTW. Belts and spark plugs. Doesn't sound like much until you remember that you have to drop the engine out of the car to do it with any ease. You said it before you drive that car a lot for whatever reason. You'd hit that interval not long after the holidays on that car. That is a 2-3k repair bill because it's a saab and there is an upmarket charge for genuine saab parts. And I would not pass that interval by too much as the belt breaking means you need a new engine.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > jkm7680 09/19/2014 at 19:23

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4 people have learned to drive stick on it... Including me. Rear tires have 3/32s on them and fronts have 7/32s

Kanaric > jkm7680 09/19/2014 at 19:23

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hmm.... idk if someone with a VW avatar should be trusted when discussing how reliable VWs are. Bias is usually afoot.

Kanaric > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/19/2014 at 19:25

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Subaru still stocks parts from this era WRX.

Kanaric > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:26

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Sounds like your parents aren't exactly car people. If it was my dad he would be telling me to get a Mazda 3 or something like that, not a jetta.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/19/2014 at 19:26

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I guess you are right... What I really want is a car that is decently fast (not my jetta ;) or to get the stage 2 tune from Malone

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Kanaric 09/19/2014 at 19:26

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But will the dealers service the saabaru? More specifically, will the dealer near HIM service it? He can get powertrain maintenance done there and he will probably have to for the major stuff.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:27

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Your Jetta, is that from your parents' money or yours?

jkm7680 > Kanaric 09/19/2014 at 19:28

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No, Not really. I've driven Audis and VWs my entire life, and I've never had any major problems with them.

One of them has died, but that was nearly 300k later and years of improper maintenance and shenanigans.

Argent > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:28

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Something that worked for me (somewhat) when this sort of situation arose when I was in high school, was to make a presentation. Yes, with slides, bullet lists, pros and cons, and financial data. If a parent sees that you've done your homework on a subject, they're less likely to dismiss what you have to say. Treat it like a business would treat a large financial decision.

jkm7680 > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:29

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From the sound of it, the clutch is probably a must.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Kanaric 09/19/2014 at 19:31

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I love my jetta, I just want something else (in addition but they won't let me get another car) so I tried to find something I thought they would approve of (Saab, wagon, AWD, decent insurance, cheap)

webmonkees > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:34

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Their logic: VW is around. Subaru is around. Saab is not. If you can verify that the Subaru dealership will work on the Saab, and perhaps a service manager could explain to them how it won't be impossible to work on. . past that, it's hard to convince parental units. We had to sell my Mk1 VW because it had 100,000 more miles than my dad thought it did. No problems, just high miles. That's what DIY is for. Cheap car, breaks, fix, trust.

Right now, it sounds like if there's an issue with the VW.. don't know if they pay or you have to, but since it's part of 'their' decisions, they're certainly going to help more than if you insisted on going rogue with the Saab.

But the Saabs aren't immune to the inevitable head gasket issues. Eventually. And who will foot that $1600 bill?

In the long-long term, if that's what you want, you'll find one.

When you have the freedom to park anything anywhere at your house/condo/apartment, want to take the effort, pay the extra insurance. That Independence crap.

Just might not be the decade you expect. 2020 is coming up, plan ahead.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 09/19/2014 at 19:34

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Parent's, but they always complain about the loan and maintenance costs (tires, oil, etc) and they are going to title it over to me after college anyways

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > webmonkees 09/19/2014 at 19:38

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I planned on importing a Skyline while I am in college, but.... SAABARU!!!

webmonkees > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:45

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Oh, yes, I'm in complete agreement that it would be awesome, but then I also consider Sportwagons awesome. Like the mythical car that the Griswolds were supposed to get.

A Saabaru can easily slip into the hands of the gentrified and out again without a speedy moment. That's the appeal to me. It's a lotto. The owner who completely thinks it's a Saab and discounts appropriately? Golden Ticket.

RallyWrench > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:46

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I like TDIs, a lot. I often recommend them to clients & friends, and no one has been disappointed. They are generally very reliable, and hold up well. If I could justify a car payment, that's what I'd choose to drive daily. But I work on them, so that's easy to say.

That said, let me give you a few numbers (approx parts & labor) for somewhat common needs to think about as the car approaches 100k miles:

Diesel Particular Filter (DPF): $1,500+

High pressure injection pump & injectors: $2300+

Timing belt & water pump replacement (@130k): $1000

They almost never need turbos, and when they do it's because of poor maintenance & incorrect oil, but if it dies, it'll be $2300+.

The flip side is that any Saabaru will need some things too, like the timing belt & water pump at 105k, and the really expensive cams-out valve adjustment at the same time that almost nobody does, which is why they burn valves. If it needs a clutch, which most do by 150k, figure about $1300. But unless it needs the head gaskets done, you'll spend less to care for the Saabaru, barring any oddball failures in the Saaby bits, like xenon lights if it has them. The bummer is that the newest one is now 8 years old, so finding a pristine one might be difficult.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 19:50

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Porsche parents(just my dad though) are awesome. ;)

Jayhawk Jake > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/19/2014 at 19:51

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I'd rock it.

I didn't get a car until junior year of college, and it was a hand me down accord from my brother. Granted it was a nice accord, but certainly uninspiring. And it wasn't mine, when I decided to get a new car after college my parents took the accord back.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Jayhawk Jake 09/19/2014 at 19:58

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I did rock it once I got over my high school self.

LONG LIVE THE LOLCAR

shop-teacher > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 20:02

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Was this car free? If so, then stop whining. If it's so horrible, then give the car back, and buy your own car, and pay for everything yourself. Enjoy. If my parents had given me the rusty shit-box cargo van, that burned 3 quarts of oil a week, that was sitting around doing nothing, I would have been the happiest boy in the land. You have a perfectly nice car. When you're on your own, you can buy all the beaters and Saabarus you can affords.

Edit: All right, that was a bit of a dickish comment, but you really should be thankful for what you have.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > webmonkees 09/19/2014 at 20:04

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exactly! Saabarus are awesome because they are sleepers! My sportwagen is still fun, but is starting to feel slow... A Malone tune would fix that (180whp and 330lbft at wheels!)

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > shop-teacher 09/19/2014 at 20:06

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I am grateful, my issue is that my parents are always complaining about the payments and maintenance costs (tires, oil, etc)

Kanaric > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/19/2014 at 20:07

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I don't go to dealers for service unless it's warrantied really.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 20:11

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My parents told me I could get whatever I wanted within reason, as long as I knew they wouldn't help me if something breaks if I got something unreasonable. So I got a Toyota. Over 4k in engine repairs later... But in reality, I see where your parents are coming from. At least you have a car. If I ever have kids, they will get a shitbox that is safe.

shop-teacher > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 20:20

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Yeah, these things happen, it's just parent stuff, not unique in any way to your parents. You're just going to have to take it, until you're on your own. I know that seems like forever away at your age, but it'll be here before you know it.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > shop-teacher 09/19/2014 at 20:22

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hopefully in less than 2 years (I'm a senior in high school, going to college out of state ;)

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Kanaric 09/19/2014 at 20:24

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His parents probably won't let him work on it in the driveway. Which is why he was given a very new jetta wagon - to avoid the need for major repairs.

shop-teacher > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 20:29

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Blink of an eye.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > shop-teacher 09/19/2014 at 20:53

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Hopefully ;)

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/19/2014 at 21:47

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Well it was very nice of your father to get a good later-model car for you. I think you Saaburu dream should just be yours to achieve when you're a self-made adult, because arguing with your dad about this probably makes him think you don't appreciate it at all.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Sweet Trav 09/20/2014 at 00:16

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If this was my kid and they threatened to buy my grandchildren a shitbox equal to a Versa with a CVT, I'd beat their ass with a bamboo stick. I may be old at the time but gotdamnit dem whippersnappers need to know how to car!

"But da-"

NO BUTS, SONNY!

Edit: If they buy something worse, I'd disown them and hand all my estate to my grandkids.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/20/2014 at 00:18

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You'd be surprised with what you can find for Saabaru parts, brand death be damned.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 09/20/2014 at 00:53

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I have no doubt that they are out there, I just find it impossible to beileve that the 9-2X specific bits would be cheaper than equivalent bits for a jetta sportwagon. And that the jetta's bits would fail first since it is probably a good 4-6 years newer than any 9-2s out there.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/20/2014 at 00:56

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Most of the bits are Impreza over the Saab, I believe. I mean, sure, the tail light and headlights plus quarter panels, sure, but I doubt anything changed on the inside.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 09/20/2014 at 02:17

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The engine and drivetrain are mostly subaru to my knowledge. But Saab changed a lot of everything else in very subtle ways. I believe the interior electronics and seats are different so the associated electronics would be too. The front and rear ends are different so things like bumper clips and the various little mounts and brackets would be different. So let's say you need to change the engine's timing belt. No problem, you think to yourself after buying the correct belts that are shared with the subaru. But then you have to take everything apart to get at said belts. And any of the one time use connectors or clips? Those would most likely be Saab parts, not subaru. And even if they are subaru, the basic maintenance costs of a subaru are higher than your typical inline or V engines car because of that boxer layout.

I will confess I have never had to work on a saabaru but from what I've heard and witnessed and what I've seen of similar era WRXes........I see no reason to support this endeavour of his. Like I sad in my original post, if it was a Toyobaru, even though I don't like them, you can make quite a few legitimate arguments for that vehicle. But for the saabaru? You have very few over an equivalent WRX. What I find funny is that the WRXes of the era are going for as much, if not more, because the 9-2X carries the saab badge. Guess what? Unique parts for the saab are harder to find which makes it more expensive and difficult to maintain so it sells for less because of the cost differential in maintenance and repairs.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/20/2014 at 02:21

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The interior is shared with the Impreza of that generation, if memory serves me right. Dash and instrument cluster. Can't say much about the seats, but again, apart from the headlights, front end and taillights, not much.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 09/20/2014 at 15:01

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I had the 9-2 confused with the 9-7 where they redid the center console and stack to support the use of the typical saab ignition placement. The 9-2 does have an identical center section and dash and the ignition is on the steering column. The dials are different but I don't think saab added an LCD or anything too drastic in that regards. Now the saab *did* get an upgraded radio and I think it was a saab part, not a subaru radio from a more luxurious car like the legacy or forester. But Still, you have to tear apart the front end to do the maintenance that occurs much more often on subaru's boxer 4 and a lot of those little clips and screws and everything else break very easily. Also saab used different suspension bushings and drivetrain mounts to complement the increased sound deadening for a quieter interior. I think the suspension was altered too.

The seats are different and some interior panels are different but they DO use the factory mounting mounts for everything so you could always get WRX parts and use aftermarket seats and whatnot if you need.

webmonkees > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen 09/21/2014 at 12:34

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Soo friggin close, it's an actual Saab, isn't it?

Whoa that was a close one. Okay, anyway.. You could just keep searching for one needing engine repair. Just consider that the second half of the payment plan. Repair, all nice and new and safe.

(scrolls down listings) waita minute

crap. I may now have fallen into the same trap (shakes fist)